Three Deep - Rumination, speculation, &cetera

From: macha3 Date: May 7th, 2005 03:49 pm (UTC) meta micro/macro (Link)

(And speaking of process, if you're interested in how things are being done behind the scenes, you'll find some discussion here and in macha3's LJ.)


at least, on those occasions when i remember to post there. hopefully i'll be able to say something about where we're at exactly by the end of the day, once i figure it out myself. {g}

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From: wenchsenior Date: May 7th, 2005 04:27 pm (UTC) one particular paragraph (Link)

First, the quibbles. I'm quick to notice foreshadowing and subtext in visual media but when I read I'm sort of a moron. It could easily have taken 3 or 4 reads before I smacked myself in the forehead with "I SO just got that!" so I'm glad most other readers are smarter than me. To be honest, I was a bit distracted from plot due to contrasts among different writers' styles, particularly when it came to Spike's and Angel's "voices".

However, much of this first ep was spectacular in terms of style and detail. As all have mentioned, Illyria was written fantastically well, and I adored the Spike/Angel/cigarette scene, and the detail of the polished yellow skulls spilling from the dragon's belly. The post-apocalyptic setting was very cinematic and well-described.

Anyway, what I ended up doing was re-watching the last few eps of AS5, and then re-reading, and I found that the voices of the characters rang much clearer. I had missed the significance of Conner during the first read and now I'm hung up on that italicized paragraph where Angel wakes in stasis (I think) and he's so happy, but then he rememembers and worries about breaking the spell and goes back to sleep. The hell?

Angel's behavior confused me throughout, so I'm wondering if that paragraph's reference to the fairy tale motif and the monster in the mirror are foreshadowing the arrival of Angelus or the fact that in this (alternate?) reality the demon elements in him will be harder to supress. Maybe he'll actually have to try to integrate Angel/Angelus in a way he hasn't before?

Anyway, my second read was incredibly satisfying because I can now see the foreshadowing for an unbelievably epic story. I am bouncing with excitement at the possibilities: if you set up this many mysteries while focusing on the Fang Gang, what new things might be revealed on the Scooby end of things?

One minor question: so there's a kraken in the harbor? What the hell was it doing over there to make the booming sound?

Really impressed with your work, guys!

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From: sylviavolk2000 Date: May 8th, 2005 10:45 pm (UTC) Re: the kraken in the harbour (Link)

They only thought it was a kraken. It was really just another Old One coming up for air (g) - I wrote that detail in, so I know. As for the booming? Would you believe "aspiring rock musician trying to work out the different between a shindig and a hootenanny?"

No, the real originator of the booming sound was an imitation of William Hope Hodgson.

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From: lordshiva Date: May 22nd, 2005 01:52 am (UTC) Re: one particular paragraph (Link)

Oh my god you are such a smarty-pants:-) And it makes us all happy when people speculate so elegantly.

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From: estepario Date: May 9th, 2005 06:03 am (UTC) Awesome (Link)

No deep thoughts...just wanted to say THANKS and I LOVED EPISODE 1, and you guys ROCK!!!! The writing is awesome. Can't wait for the next epi.

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From: clancy_s Date: May 9th, 2005 11:45 pm (UTC) (Link)

I first posted this over on the first episode thread, it was suggested I copy it over here. I'm currently on holiday for a week, and am posting this on a friend's computer in Byron Bay. We'll be riding on again tommorow so I may be a bit slow in replying.

I'm not asking for any spoilers dear writers - just wondering if any of the other readers want to join in some semi-informed guessing, or wild speculation.

Felicia, I'm with the ones who think that Angel's four (or Illyria's four if you prefer) are not in the universe they started in. The Old Ones so informed Illyria, and the differences between the LA Buffy and team are in compared to the LA Angel at al are in, confirm it. We've no reason to believe that team Buffy have jumped 'verses so it must be team Angel.

That would mean that the Connor Angel found dead is not the one he started with and that we have no info at the moment on the fate of 3deep main Connor.

Will Gunn survive? I really hope so, but medically I don't see how he's survived this long. However he's pretty tough for human, this one is anybody's guess. later add - we've already lost too many characters too quickly, I reckon there's hope for Gunn, that is if we're following TV character planning as well as likely plot developments. Maybe I'm kidding myself but I really hope Gunn makes it!

The line that leads me to wild speculation is the last of the episode:

"that in the end, they would be mine."

Does that apply to just the boots do you think? I suppose we'll have to wait until episode 22 to find out for sure. What a great ride it's going to be!!!

thinking about this as I rode along a flat stretch yesterday it occurred to me that whether you're talking about boots or souled vampires, they are already hers. IMO the real question is will she be theirs??

Either way, I'm sure we'll take a while to get there, and it's the journey that'll make it interesting!

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From: spikeverse Date: May 10th, 2005 01:07 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm with the ones who think that Angel's four (or Illyria's four if you prefer) are not in the universe they started in.

I agree. In addition to what Illyria thinks the old ones told her, I don't think they'd have customs hassling Buffy over her boots in the post-apocapyptic LA. Plus I think Giles and Willow drove right up to the ruins of W&H vs all the hell Angel and Spike went thru getting there.

Will Gunn survive?

Well, are they ever going to get him some medication? So many delays. And all caused by Angel.

whether you're talking about boots or souled vampires, they are already hers. IMO the real question is will she be theirs?

There could be hints in the icons they've made. But I already asked about the dancing. I gather it's just metaphorical. They won't really go dancing. :-( This is the response I got from Macha:

'Three protagonists. there are always Three. it is the nature of the dance. and the dance never ends. one triangle always yields three pairs.'

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From: clancy_s Date: May 11th, 2005 05:15 am (UTC) (Link)

re the dancing icons - they seem to be missing one: we already know Spike and Angel will be dancing, so long as we're speaking metaphorically!

(or was it there and I did not perceive it?)

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From: spikeverse Date: May 11th, 2005 01:04 pm (UTC) (Link)

I think cyn3dance2 is Spike and Angel. There are 2 Spuffy and no Bangel!

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From: rahirah Date: May 11th, 2005 07:20 pm (UTC) (Link)

The Bangel one is in development; Cyn wasn't happy with the way it came out. All three sides get equal respresentation. *g*

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From: spikeverse Date: May 15th, 2005 03:09 am (UTC) Our LA or not? (Link)

I just read it again, since the first time I had a million interuptions.

On the 'our dimension' side, where's Faith? She's running around some other presumably damaged area. Although that could be near the Hyperion while the others are at Worlfram and Hart. How far apart are they supposed to be?

And the discription of Buffy's arrival said something like 'it's a pity about Rodeo Drive, but maybe they'd hold a fire sale. So has Rodeo Drive been destroyed too? IS is near WRH or the Hyperion? IF not, then more than the WRH building and the alley were destroyed in our dimension.

And then again, Willow said she couldn't find Angel on our plane. Plus they aren't spotting old ones blocking out the sky.

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From: spikeverse Date: May 11th, 2005 01:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

It also says this in the description for the season:

'Still appearing in another dimension on some Tuesday nights. It must be magic, at the end of the rainbow. Unless, of course, it's science. Come and see'

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From: (Anonymous) Date: May 11th, 2005 03:23 am (UTC) Where? (Link)

Hey guys! Where's the next chapter? It's the 10th and i was expecting a new eppy! Come on, Where's the Scooby opener?

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From: clancy_s Date: May 11th, 2005 05:13 am (UTC) Re: Where? (Link)

They never said there'd be one every week - in fact they said there wouldn't be. Since there's nothing new in the Three Deep upcoming my guess'd be it'll be more than a week until the next one.

Slow fic - really good quality takes time ;-)

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From: spikeverse Date: May 11th, 2005 01:07 pm (UTC) Re: Where? (Link)

And there are no peaks behind the scenes at Macha's LJ.

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From: macha3 Date: May 11th, 2005 02:12 pm (UTC) Re: Where? (Link)

eek! my apologies, to tell you the truth i forgot all about that. see, i'm not normally an lj user, so it doesn't naturally occur to me. feel free to prod me about it anytime i get lax with the updating. i'll go put something up there right now.

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From: eve11 Date: May 12th, 2005 03:09 am (UTC) Illyria's egg (Link)

So... what is it? Is it a dimensional gate to get them back to the "right" world? (And as such a device for this mini-arc of AU) Or is it more? I am intrigued. The way she stores it on her breast, the way she protects it, all I can think of is that it's an egg of some kind. But when it hatches, I have no idea what it will be. A fleeting hope would be that it's something that might "grow" Illyria a new (and better) body so Fred could come back! But then I have mixed feelings about that, because bringing someone back like that kind of cheapens the original loss. I mean, it can still be good, but there has to be a price still.

*sighs* I guess I just felt bad for poor Fred. She deserved better. Her and Wes. Buy Illyria is such an interesting and cool character. Anyway, anyone have any thoughts on the egg?

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From: spikeverse Date: May 12th, 2005 02:03 pm (UTC) Re: Illyria's egg (Link)

My guess was egg.

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